Chris Hayes On His Argument With Giuliani This Week: Giuliani Was Right. But'

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While wrapping up Saturday morning's Up with Chris Hayes, host Chris Hayes took a moment to address a heated discussion he'd had with former mayor Rudy Giuliani earlier in the week. During MSNBC's Wednesday night debate coverage, Hayes and Giuliani had entered into an argument, with Hayes asking Giuliani whether contracts his consulting firm secures with government count as 'feeding the beast.' Giuliani felt Hayes was making a personal attack, adding that his firm did not make contracts with the Department of National Security.

RELATED: Giuliani Repeatedly Demolishes Chris Hayes Amid Attempts To Discredit Him

'Well, we checked,' said Hayes, 'and the truth is I vastly overestimated the amount of direct government business Giuliani's firm, Giuliani Bracewell [Ed. note: It appears -- and correct me if I'm wrong, readers -- that Giuliani's consulting firm is called Giuliani Partners LLC. He is also, however, a partner at the Texas-based law firm of Bracewell & Giuliani.], does with the federal government. The Mayor was right that his firm has no contracts with the DHS or the federal government. A Giuliani representative told us yesterday that his firm is also not pursuing any federal contracts either for itself or any of its clients.'

'But while he was correct he never had a contract specifically with DHS,' Hayes continued, 'it is true, in 2002, his consulting firm received a $1.1 million contract from the Justice Department. Given how much revenue Mr. Giuliani's firm brings in, that hardly represents a major part of its business, but it's not nothing either.' But Giuliani, he said, isn't really the main point here:

I raise the issue because Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Romney, and most Republicans draw this sharp line between the virtuous private sector and the vicious and predatory public sector while at the same time advocating for $2 trillion more in defense spending. The same party that preaches government is wasteful and bureaucrats useless has also overseen the creation of a vast, largely privately-contracted world of surveillance and security that provides a whole lot of private sector jobs and healthy paychecks from the taxpayer dime.

We shouldn't pretend that the public and private sector exist in two different worlds. The overlap is increasing and there's a good lot of private profit to be made by navigating the borders between the two. I can appreciate Mr. Giuliani was taken aback that I broached the ostensible topic at hand with the debate.

Hayes then extended an invitation to have Giuliani on his show to discuss the issue further.

Have a look, via MSNBC:

• Hayes flatters himself by thinking that Giuliani has given him another thought. And he ends his 'apology' with another backhanded attack. Classy guy. Moronic, yet classy.

• Shorter Hayes: I was wrong. But my point still stands. So I'm right.

• Rudy 'Let's Go Shopping' Giuliani, need I say more? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jx1QZskGFg

• Why is he missing that they have done business with FOREIGN governments/companies?

• This man is such a pathetic little douche. Watching Rudy wipe the floor with him wasn't even that entertaining because it was such a lopsided fight'a heavyweight on one side, a moron on the other.

• The problem is Giuliani still wants to get the govt spending under control'Hayes doesn't want any of that, and somehow says because the Mayor works with the gov't that nothing should be cut back. It's a dumb argument. But he still got his ass handed to him.

• The bigger problem remains:
  Even the 'smart ones' on MSNBC aren't particularly smart

• MSNBC lost any cred they had with that ignorant coverage of the debate. They lied all night. That could be why the viewers have decreased and Fox went up.

• At least MSNBC has the guts to admit when they are mistaken. While I think both Fox and MSNBC are shameless shills for their respective sides. MSNBC shows a bit more class and honesty by admitting mistakes. Fox on the other hand usually double down on their wanton lies.

• 'the truth is I vastly overestimated the amount of direct government business Giuliani's firm, Giuliani Bracewell etc.'

  Hayes should have done his homework before opening his mouth. Why even take that shot at Giuliani anyway? Was he channeling his inner Ann Coulter or something?

• Hayes is small potatoes over there, the B-Squad if you will. The network revolves around Morning Joe, Hardball and Rachel Maddow.

• So you admit they had cred before! I'm telling on you to Rush, Gordon.

• Is he advocating the elimination of DHS and the TSA? Good.

  Odds are he just another partisan hack who doesn't realize the first goal of the federal gov't is to protect its citizens, not fund Big Bird.

• Hayes is right that there is a lot of overlap between the public and private sectors, but that is reflective of expanding government. A sicentific analogy is helpful here. Every piece of art, for example, created after 1945, has traces of radiation contamination This fact is used by art experts to authenticate paintings and artworks done before 1945 (since they lack similar levels of contamination). It's not surprising that since the government expanded during the new deal, then again during the Great Society and even more until today that there is massive overlap between the public and private sectors.

  The point is, it's almost impossible to avoid doing business with the government at some point (also I don't have as big a problem with this as some Republicans do).

• He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

  It's good that he made good his mistake, but in the future he ought to take Giuliani's advise and advance his arguments without the benefit of personal attacks.

• I do think it's a much better policy to correct a mistake. I must admit though, I've lost some respect for Hayes. I thought he wouldn't say something like that without having solid facts, or at least solid leftist talking points to back it up. He didn't and clearly just wanted to score points against a republican after Obama lost that debate

• Quick lesson from this week when you lose a argument or debate just let it go. Whining about it and making up excuses only make that beating look worse.

• I wish he didn't apologize to that chump Giuliani

• The truth is that Guiliani was working for Perdue Pharma to spiff up their image given the fact that Oxycontin, a product released by Perdue Pharma, was becoming notorious as hillbilly heroin and ruining all kinds of people's lives.

  Then, at the same time, Mr. Guiliani accepted a 1.1million dollar federal contract from the DOJ to work on a drug enforcement task force.

  So he's working both sides of the street.