Jordan Davis Would Also Likely Still Be Alive If His Killer Had No Handgun

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On Sunday night, broadcaster Bob Costas launched a furious barrage of indignation at himself when he dared to comment on American gun culture during the NFL Sunday Night Football halftime show. The premise of his critique is tough to argue with: possession of handguns can escalate non-lethal situations into deadly ones, like the murder/suicide that prompted Costas to speak, or like the tragedy that predated it by several days, and which Costas also referenced: the shooting death of 17 year-old Jordan Davis, whose only crime appears to have been A Salt With A Deadly Pepa, or some other musical source that was playing too loud for 45 year-old Michael Dunn.

Bob Costas' commentary was sparked by the tragic crimes of Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher, who shot and killed Kasandra Perkins, his girlfriend and the mother of his child, then drove to the Chiefs' practice facility and committed suicide in front of his coach and general manager Saturday morning. Costas, quoting heavily from a column by sportswriter Jason Whitlock, also referenced the Jordan Davis killing, saying that handguns ensure that 'more convenience store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.'

The details of the Jordan Davis shooting differ significantly from those of the Trayvon Martin case, but there is a common thread. From The Associated Press:

Michael David Dunn is charged with murder and attempted murder in the Nov. 23 shooting at a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station. The 45-year-old Dunn parked beside the sport utility vehicle occupied by Davis and three other young men and told them to turn the music down, police said. Dunn exchanged words with Davis, who was in the back seat, and started firing. He later told police he felt threatened. His attorney has said Dunn saw a gun and shot in self-defense, perhaps laying the ground work for a case under Florida's 'stand your ground' law.

Undercutting Dunn's claim that he acted in self-defense, aside from the lack of any weapon being found in the target vehicle, is the fact that he failed to report the incident to police, instead spending the night in a hotel with his girlfriend, before returning home, where he was arrested.

So far, the Jordan Davis killing has failed to attract the level of attention that Trayvon Martin's killing did, perhaps because the alleged shooter in Davis' case was immediately arrested, and justice appears to be taking its course, but the similarities are such that the Jordan Davis killing should lead to some important national discourse. In both cases, the victims were unarmed, 17 year-old young black men, while the aggressors were older, non-black men who shot these teenagers dead, then claimed self-defense. In Trayvon Martin's case, his hooded sweatshirt became a racially loaded symbol for the 'threat' that his killer felt, while Jordan Davis was apparently a threat because of his boomin' system. If Trayvon and Jordan had been white, it's possible they would both still be alive, but that's another conversation, one that's been started nationally by folks like MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry and Touré, and commentators like Leonard Pitts, Jr.

But there's very little that we can do to keep 17 year-old black teenagers from being black, or, apparently, to keep other people from panicking at the sight of them. What Bob Costas was saying, along with Jason Whitlock, is that if some people did not have access to handguns, people like George Zimmeman, and Michael Dunn, then their respective victims would probably still be alive. George Zimmerman probably would have stayed in his car and let the police confiscate Trayvon Martin's dangerous Skittles, and Michael Dunn probably would have parked someplace where Jordan Davis' stereo would have offended his senses a bit less, and those kids' families would still have them around to love.

Whitlock went pretty far in denouncing the 2nd Amendment as a 'threat' to our liberty (although even he didn't explicitly call for its revocation), but Bob Costas, object of so much conservative ire, was completely silent on the issue of gun rights. What Costas said is the essential first step in any productive conversation about guns, the step that conservatives refuse to take: admitting that guns can be a problem. Not single parents, not low-character 'inner-city' folk, not people with autism, and not decades of liberalism, but guns. What you do about it from there is the real conversation, a conversation we cannot have until conservatives realize that not everyone should be able to get a gun, let alone have the right to shoot first and ask questions later.

Now, the result of that conversation could be changes to gun laws, which would be my preference, but conservatives could offer other means to address the problem, if they admitted there was one. Yes, we can focus on preventing suicide and domestic violence, while also trying to prevent depressed people and domestic abusers from obtaining handguns, and to suggest otherwise is simply misdirection.

• Many of the Colorado theater victims would likely be alive if one of them HAD had a handgun. Argument goes both ways, ___.

• The only certainty about any of this is we will see the same conversations again this time as we have had in the past, and we will have these same conversations again in the future. Because nothing changes.

• as usual, the liberals will rally behind the person who's right to life and liberty were violated while conservatives will defend the racist murdering thug while hiding behind the 2nd Amendment.
  sigh.

• If someone wants to kill someone, they are going to do it with a gun, knife, rope or bare hands. Stop trying to infringe on our rights and deal with the person who committed the crime.

• If you think a gun is the same as a knife or a rope, you need help' and you don't understand the concept of all of this.

• Why would we give everyone a gun instead of just make them harder to buy?

• And you need help if you don't understand that guns, knives, or ropes don't kill people'hate kills people.

• Of course Tommy is the one to write this article'. why not Andrew?

• because Tommy does not become tumescent when talking about guns or 'stand your ground' (unlike the rightie writers here)

• I support the 2nd Amendment, but there's a huge difference in the efficiency of each for damned sure.

• What right to life and liberty was being violated in the Dunn case? I'm new to being aware of the case, but everything I'm seeing right now looks like the most the kid was doing wrong was a noise complaint ' not usually something that's considered a case to defend oneself with deadly force.

• Pitch black theater with a night-vision goggled assailant. That still remains one of the stupidest arguments in modern history. (Right behind Romney's tax plans being 'revenue neutral' while only providing the numbers for the parts that would reduce revenue)

• I think for the first time, I can actually agree with Christopher's basic premise that had this idiot Dunn not been armed, Davis would indeed be alive today. Much of the remainder of his piece consisted of nothing more than the same old liberal arguments against the relatively lax gun laws in our country. What disappointed me was that though he mentioned Melissa Harris-Perry in his piece, he never once questioned her wisdom by trying to equate the NRA, a group I've been a member of for more than thirty five years, with the KKK. This demagoguery and hyperbole serves nothing in the interest of Davis' memory or of a reasonable call to relook gun control laws. It does make me wonder whether I should scratch that NRA membership sticker off the back window of my truck, lest someone as hysterical as Harris-Perry decide to take out their anger on me.

• This is much more insightful and well-written than usual; there's definitely some food for thought here.

• I'm going to bet if Jovan Belcher hadn't killed HIMSELF ' it wouldn't have been that big of a tragedy to Mr. Costas. It would have been a 'domestic dispute that ended tragically' and Jovan had been 'accused' of killing his girlfriend. because NO NFL player EVER has killed his ex. and it couldn't have been *that* big of a tragedy ' the Chiefs played their scheduled game.
  But NFL ' if you want to start the trend ' ban all players, employees, etc from owning guns ' see where the first objection comes from' the players and the player's union.

• Unlike someone with a gun, they'll probably take their anger out on you using some method that you can escape, such as words. That seems extremely unlikely, though, so don't go getting any delusions of persecution. Besides, once they see your NRA sticker, they're probably more scared of you than you are of them. :(

• Guns aren't bullet-proof vests.

• Zzzzzzzzzzzzz''..

• about par for the course for you, sweetie (calorie-free stoopid)

• Hate? How did the guy that shot Trayvon have enough time to 'hate' him? It was just a spur-of-the-moment thing. Same with the man that shot a black teen for playing his music too loud. You really think that is about hate? It's about the fact we are all animals and have animal impulses, and no everyone having a gun would not change that fact, it would just emphasis it.

• Because like Heroin or pot or whatever that is illegal, people who have no respect for the law or the safety of themselves and others will continue to acquire them. Communities where gun laws are strict tend to have very high (and violent) crime rates, those with many responsible citizens owning guns tend to see much less crime ' gee, wonder why that is? (sarcasm).

• Americans will never be safe until every man, woman, child, dog, and cat is allowed to open carry an automatic weapon with a bullet in the chamber and the safety off. We need weapons stations every 10 yards in incorporated areas, just in case we run out of ammo.

  With these simple precautions, we can be safe, because everyone will be ready to shoot everyone, so no one will shoot anyone. Fear and firepower are the keys.

• Who says he used night vision goggles? And even if he did, you do know how they work don't you? Without others backing him up they would have hindered as well as helped.

• And just what gun laws would you change Tommy?

• Yes, we all know how Christopher dislikes the use of hyperbole when discussing things he disagrees with. Much like the rest of you liberals, right?

• Don't get too filled with yourself here. I am a gun toting member of the NRA and a conservative and think this moron deserves to be locked up with the rest of the gun violence offenders. How does this thinking fit with your version of the universe?

• Shooting the messenger instead of focusing on the message, eh?

• how about (instead of the rhetorical equivalent of pooping in your hand and throwing it) actually attack his premise (or mine)?

  ad hom = yawnz

• More zzzzzzzzzzz''..

• I believe you mean, because Tommy picks up every far-left cause, has no problem slandering Republicans (even when unrelated), and lacks any sort of guilt, morality, or ethics.

• Yeah, you have a lot of accuracy in a darkened theater filled with smoke and running people.

• Erm, do you know how they work? . Anyone else with a gun would just shoot blindly and ADD to the casualty list.

• so attack premise, or prove your own

  pooping in the bathtub calling him a liar (without a proof of any kind) is tiresome

• Yup' guns are the problem.

  But to be honest, I feel the same way about cars. Lots of people die daily from car accidents' so if we took away cars, there would be less of a chance for that to happen. Once we take away cars, we can then talk about the reasons why the accidents happened in the first place. But until cars are outlawed, it would be wrong to discuss the causes' even if most people who own cars, don't die or kill someone in an accident.

  Yup' that makes perfect sense.

• You had a premise? I just thought you were one of the few members of the Tommy Christopher fan club here, armed with a phenomenal thesaurus. No, I'm not going to attack you or Christopher ' heck, I actually agreed with him here''..to a point.

• and laughing as you ran off like a b$%^h when you got called out for calling Christianity an 'ideology' not religion

  dumbest thing seen here in a week (at least)

• Because knives, rope, and fists can all penetrate the door of an SUV. Right.

• Gee, the crime rates in Somalia are really low, eh? whereas in Britain, Germany etc. it's higher, eh?

  Who knew? (sarcasm)

• You do have a thing for poop, don't you? Second reference to the dreaded ca-ca in this thread alone.

• Cars aren't manufactured for the purpose of killing.

  Guns are.

• I get you are being sarcastic ' but there's a huge difference between a war torn 3rd world country and a long-at-peace 1st world country. Many casualties in Africa are from edged weapons by the way, its not unusual for some 'fighters' in the poorer countries to man roadblocks with empty weapons or with only a few bullets.

• Ah sorry, it was tear gas and smoke grenades ' and he was wearing a gas mask. Been a while, got mixed up in the details of 'he had a clear view and they did not' point that defrays the argument.

  A face full of tear gas makes it very hard to shoot straight ' not to mention the whole body armor deal that he was wearing would've made more than the occasional shot be needed to really suppress him.

• Liberals don't care about the victims, beyond how they can be used to further their insane political agendas.

• The world is sick of coddling lowlifes that antagonize people as a dare (loud music.) Wish there were a thousand more Dunns.

• Known is taking the very politically correct position that the young upstanding African American had his life and liberty violated by the evil white racist. It's really not very hard to keep up with the libs, just try to imagine what the main stream has been taught to think about any given subject' and then just regurgitate.. It's a very simple way of life.. Never having to think for themselves, never having to actually reason anything through. It's one of my favorite things to chuckle about. Liberals used to be so enamored by their position outside the establishment. Free thinkers they were. They now have very clearly designed doctrine that they must follow. Similar to the Zimmerman case? Because the guys that got shot were both black, is that really all it takes? No. It falls into the lib doctrine that says only black youths shot by White (or in Zimmermans case nearly white) guys are victims. Only those stories should be brought up again'and again'.and again. Horrible and impossible to comprehend things happen every single day. James Cooper and James Kouzaris' Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome. I could honestly go on all day. And the atrocities committed on a daily basis, black on black.. No national outrage, no national introspection. No proper villains because it doesn't fit the main stream narrative. Cowards. Every one of you.

• Except they became belligerent when asked to turn it down. Why don't you try it some time?

• NRA is a joke. They support gun legislation all the time. The heinous '68 law passed with their help.

• What the eff are you blabbing about?? I blew your incoherent argument out of the water. Now, have some decency and admit you are full of hot air, instead of acting the fool.

• Agreed, it would have been hell ' but it was anyway. There are better examples of patrons either saving others or would very likely have if they'd been armed. Besides the argument of an armed patron is that person has to have been trained, be competent, and have the opportunity. For this event, a theater is a large space (compared to an office or home), no matter how many grenades he'd had he wouldn't have been able to incapacitate the entire theater unless they'd all sat there and gave him 5 or 10 minutes to deploy enough of them all across the room.

• Apparently in your book homicide is a reasonable response to antagonization..

  You probably annoy some people in your own way. Its inevitable. Someone
  might find you too cheery, or you might 'look at someone in the wrong
  way', or you might smile at their girlfriend. Good bye Dave.